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Thread: Comment on design...

  1. #21
    Zoffix Znet's Avatar
    Zoffix Znet is offline at 40 posts I am a Junior Guru
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    Talking Omg

    Scary site I'm not a designer but a coder. The only thing about the design that I can tell is that you should add some padding around text and use a larger line-height http://w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#propdef-line-height
    It was very hard to read the text.
    64 HTML Errors, no DOCTYPE, not ALT Attributes. I was not impressed.

    As for usability, let's just say the blind dude next door with a screen reader won't be using your site Here is a sample output of your site in a screen reader.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Multi Colour PacksTable endTable endTable endTable endTable endTable with one column and nine rowsGraphicManufacturersTable with one column and six rowsTable with one column and five rowsTable with one column and four rowsTable with one column and three rowsCombo box Please SelectTable endTable endTable endTable endTable endTable with one column and nine rowsGraphicQuick FindTable with one column and six rowsTable with one column and five rowsTable with one column and four rowsTable with one column and three rowsEdit Search the entire store using keywordsLink Advanced SearchTable endTable endTable endTable endTable endTable with one column and nine rowsGraphicWhats NewTable with one column and six rowsTable with one column and five rowsTable with one column and four rowsTable with one column and three rowsLinkGraphicLustered Pink NuggetsLink Lustered Pink Nuggets fifteen kg pounds fifty-one point eight zeroTable endTable endTable endTable endTable endTable endTable with one column and fifteen rowsTable with zerocolumn and fourteen rowsTable with one column and ten rows
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oh my, I kind of got lost highlighting all the "TABLE" related speech
    What do you think about this? Table layouts are better than CSS one? heh
    CSS doesn't suck - you suck at CSS. http://zoffix.com

  2. #22
    jmarcv's Avatar
    jmarcv is offline Cranky Coder
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    Dude! Chill!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoffix Znet View Post
    Scary site I'm not a designer but a coder.
    harsh.... as for coder.... see below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoffix Znet View Post
    As for usability, let's just say the blind dude next door with a screen reader won't be using your site
    Probably won't be buying anything he can't see either <g>

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoffix Znet View Post
    What do you think about this? Table layouts are better than CSS one?
    I suppose I could be the same and criticize the non-reusability of your site. Using tables instead of divs, is sort of like duplicating pages over and over instead of designing a template and using a database and scripting to populate the template dynamically?

    How does that go?
    glass house :crash!

  3. #23
    andychev's Avatar
    andychev is offline Master Glow Jedi
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmarcv View Post
    Dude! Chill!

    I suppose I could be the same and criticize the non-reusability of your site. Using tables instead of divs, is sort of like duplicating pages over and over instead of designing a template and using a database and scripting to populate the template dynamically?

    How does that go?
    glass house :crash!
    I dont really understand what you are saying, The site is based on oscommerce and as such is as dynamic as possible?! If you are looking at the code behind the page 99% is generated by script + database. The pages are all php but are returned as html just for search engines sake.

    I can see what you are saying about readability, in general i have found parts difficult to read but it is difficult to fit everything on the page if it is made any bigger! Does anyone know if there is any legislation (UK) about website accessibilty for blind people etc?

  4. #24
    Zoffix Znet's Avatar
    Zoffix Znet is offline at 40 posts I am a Junior Guru
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    Post What?

    I suppose I could be the same and criticize the non-reusability of your site. Using tables instead of divs, is sort of like duplicating pages over and over instead of designing a template and using a database and scripting to populate the template dynamically?

    How does that go?
    glass house :crash!

    I think I'm missing something I can make my site look completely different in about 10 minutes just by editing one file, without even touching the HTML code on any pages.
    </tablewars>
    CSS doesn't suck - you suck at CSS. http://zoffix.com

  5. #25
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    Andy, my comments were directed towards Zoffix.
    ... and I said nothing about readability, he did.

    You site is fine, and yes CSS is sexier and better, but my point was, the items you are selling are visual, so while yes, it may look(sound) ugly to a blind person, you are obviously not directing your services and products to that clientelle. If you were offering content or news, his point is valid, but you are not.

    And yes, it is dynamic. But if you look at Zoffix's site, it is well laid out, very nice, but..... If he needs to make a major change to the look and feel, he has to change a lot of files. CSS can do a lot of that, granted, but I am saying that his argument of 'tables suck' and 'you suck at CSS' can be swung back attim! with 'flat files suck' and "databases and scripting don't suck, you suck at databases and scripting"

    Maybe Zoffix will rewrite OSCommerce for us?

    Whaddaya say Zoffix?

  6. #26
    jmarcv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoffix Znet View Post
    I think I'm missing something I can make my site look completely different in about 10 minutes just by editing one file
    True enough, but you have to change every page if you add a menu item.

    Anyway, its not about tablewars, its about business. Essentially I agree with you, I think CSS is great, but you should be nicer to Andy. <g>

  7. #27
    Zoffix Znet's Avatar
    Zoffix Znet is offline at 40 posts I am a Junior Guru
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    Default :p

    Quote Originally Posted by jmarcv View Post
    Whaddaya say Zoffix?
    Right tools for the right job
    </wars>
    CSS doesn't suck - you suck at CSS. http://zoffix.com

  8. #28
    Zoffix Znet's Avatar
    Zoffix Znet is offline at 40 posts I am a Junior Guru
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    Talking Heh.

    I agree with your point about blind people not buying anything, but that was not my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmarcv View Post
    True enough, but you have to change every page if you add a menu item.
    Please let me introduce you to my friend Server Side Includes
    CSS doesn't suck - you suck at CSS. http://zoffix.com

  9. #29
    jmarcv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoffix Znet View Post
    Please let me introduce you to my friend Server Side Includes
    Server side includes The "exec" form of server side includes are a major security hole. quoted from your pals at W3c
    http://www.w3.org/Security/Faq/wwwsf3.html

    And besides, you didn't!

    OK, so I guess we really beat that one to death ready to
    .. or does this mean you won't help me with a project coming up?

  10. #30
    Zoffix Znet's Avatar
    Zoffix Znet is offline at 40 posts I am a Junior Guru
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by jmarcv View Post
    Server side includes The "exec" form of server side includes are a major security hole. quoted from your pals at W3c
    http://www.w3.org/Security/Faq/wwwsf3.html
    I'm fully aware of the exec powers, that what httpd.conf or .htaccess are for

    Quote Originally Posted by jmarcv View Post
    OK, so I guess we really beat that one to death ready to
    .. or does this mean you won't help me with a project coming up?
    Well, I've sent you an e-mail regarding your last problem and didn't receive any response. As for helping, yeah sure I might help depending on what the problem is.
    CSS doesn't suck - you suck at CSS. http://zoffix.com

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