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Thread: The future of the United States?

  1. #1
    Matt's Avatar
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    Default The future of the United States?

    Taken from a recent email, though its been around for years, I always found it an interesting topic. No clue if the statistics are valid, but interesting points throughout regardless.


    HOW LONG DO WE HAVE?

    About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution
    in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of
    Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some
    2,000 years earlier: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply
    cannot exist as a permanent form of government."

    "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
    they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

    "From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who
    promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that
    every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is
    always followed by a dictatorship."

    "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of
    history, has been about 200 years."

    "During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the
    following sequence:
    1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
    2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
    3. from courage to liberty;
    4. from liberty to abundance;
    5. from abundance to complacency;
    6. from complacency to apathy;
    7. from apathy to dependence;
    8. From dependence back into bondage"

    Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St.Paul,
    Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000
    Presidential election:

    Number of States won by:
    Gore: 19
    Bush: 29

    Square miles of land won by:
    Gore: 580,000
    Bush: 2,427,000

    Population of counties won by:
    Gore: 127 million
    Bush: 143 million
    Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
    Gore: 13.2
    Bush: 2.1

    Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was
    mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.
    Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in
    government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government
    welfare..."

    Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency
    and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some
    forty percent (that's 40%!!) of the nation's population already having
    reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

    If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal
    invaders called illegals, and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA
    in a few years, according to this formula.

    Pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing
    that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.

    Thanks for reading. "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country!"
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  2. #2
    Matt's Avatar
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    Hey look, maybe there is some accuracy to these statements.

    We managed to go from somewhere between a 5-6 in 2007:

    5. from abundance to complacency;
    6. from complacency to apathy;

    To an astounding number 7 in just over a year and a half.

    "7. from apathy to dependence;"

    What else do you call a 700 Billion dollar bail-out? How about AIG's $85 billion dollar bail out?

    If you want to be sickened by your tax dollars at work, read the following article from CNN.com distributed by the Associated Press.
    Lawmakers steamed over ritzy AIG retreat after bailout - CNN.com

    Days after it got a federal bailout, American International Group Inc. spent $440,000 on a posh California retreat for its executives, complete with spa treatments, banquets and golf outings, according to lawmakers investigating the company's meltdown.
    Does everyone else included in the new $700B bailout get to do this? If so I want my fair share too.

    These bail-outs go against everything this great nation has stood for since inception. Supply and Demand, The Free Market, and if you can't make it in the business world, see you later, somebody else will be there to take your place.

    This is a great sign of weakness by our Federal Government and it shows that we truly are in a state of dependence, which is coincidentally, the exact opposite of what this country was built on...Independence...They wrote an entire document about it back on July 4th, 1776. That's right people, July 4th isn't all about Budweiser and Firecrackers.

    United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now the question remains, how much time until we reach number 8 on the list?
    Last edited by Matt; 10-08-2008 at 08:10 PM.
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    htfiddler is offline Junior Web Sage
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    "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, murders itself. There never was a democracy yet
    that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to say that
    democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less
    ambitious, or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy.
    It is not true, in fact, and nowhere appears in history.
    Those passions are the same in all men, under all forms of
    simple government, and, when unchecked, produce the same
    effects of fraud, violence, and cruelty."
    --John Quincy Adams, 1735-1826, 6th President of the United States. From his letter to John Taylor, Speaking of direct, not
    representative, democracy. April 15, 1814.
    Last edited by htfiddler; 10-08-2008 at 07:15 PM. Reason: formatting

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    jmarcv is offline Cranky Coder
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    Quote Originally Posted by htfiddler View Post
    "Remember, democracy never lasts long. "
    Kewl! Since we have no say anyway, we are not a democracy, and we are saved!

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    charlesh's Avatar
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    I really am at the point where I blame the media right now for the huge sell-off. Their endless rhetoric on "The Crisis" proved itself as a self-fulfilling prophecy as we watched the market unravel last week.

    This morning I was watching CNN and there was a clip of a bunch of people lined up at a GoodWill store, since we are now in the midst of a severe depression number 2, right? It seems to me that they are perpetuating this idea so much and in so many ways, that whether or not we would have gotten into a depression or not, by the society hearing that we are now in one over and over, there is no choice but to find ourselves in one. I believe that the power of the mind has a lot to do with sucess or failure and the choices that we make, but the power of the collective consciousness can be overwhelming, as it is proving itself now. The media, though, has a lot to do with this mass sell-off, IMOH.

    I'm in my mid 30s and as soon as I think that the market has found a bottom, I'm not going to Goodwill, I'm going to E-trade to do my shopping.
    Last edited by charlesh; 10-11-2008 at 02:15 PM.

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    Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlesh View Post
    I'm going to E-trade to do my shopping.
    Great minds think alike. I feel like a kid in a candy store. I've been acquiring massive amounts of stock over the last 2 weeks myself. The market is insane. In any other industry when something is on sale you back the truck up and pile up on the goods.

    Right now everything is on sale in the stock market and people are dumping their stocks in droves and heading for the hills. Not me. WB at $1.80 the other day now up to $6.00 LOL!

    I am still speculating on Fannie Mae and Feddie Mac. Historically reaching upwards of $60 a share now trading for around a dollar.
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    I really am at the point where I blame the media right now for the huge sell-off. Their endless rhetoric on "The Crisis" proved itself as a self-fulfilling prophecy as we watched the market unravel last week.
    My sister and I were just talking about the same thing the other morning. The constant negativity makes you feel like you should run out and pull all your money out of the bank and hide it under you mattress; fill a barrel full of gas while you at it; and plant a garden so you don't starve. lol

    It is scary what's happening - and it must be nice to get a "bail out" when you screw up. I do wish they were passing that around - I could use a spa. lol

    I was watching 60 minutes the other night about the bail out and the "credit default swaps" - wow! Blows my mind how people can get away with just "manufacturing" a title to avoid regulation.
    Yahoo!

    Yahoo!
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    This email is a sham. You should always check with snopes.com, where it's been shown to have largely been invented out of someone's imagination. It was apparently written by Bush supporters in an attempt to more greatly polarize our country along political lines. Then lots of people forwarded it around without checking it, I guess because they liked the idea of a polarized country and had no concern for the truth.

    snopes.com: The Fall of the Athenian Republic

    I agree with your outrage about what's going on today, which of course was championed by Bush, who supposedly all the smart and peace-loving people voted for in 2000, if you believe your own reposting. But I disagree that the US was founded on or has ever had a "free market." The freer markets have been in the US and between us and other countries, the more suffering they have caused. In the early part of the last century, horrific work conditions, terrible quality of consumer goods, no protection for unions, no antitrust laws -- that sure was some party!

    Now we seem to have an even worse system in some ways, where the government steps in to protect the wealthy by shifting their risk to the poor. This week's moves with direct equity investment is just one more example. Free money for the big banks to play around with -- when it was their own money, they weren't exactly careful.

    Anyway, enough politics for now. I just hate that email and all the other divisive things that are floating around, invented out of thin air by partisans who just can't stand to the idea of a fair fight.
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    Hytekhik is offline Newbie
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    Default Mass Media Strangle Hold

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesh View Post
    I really am at the point where I blame the media right now for the huge sell-off.
    I blame the media for most of our recent problems.
    For instance: The media isn't compelled to sell or publish the truth. It has the power to publish information about anything that sells, such as death, destruction, gore, sex, recession, conflicts, or other rubbish that the government wants us to hear.
    IMHO

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